Rich, Fit and Happy Show

68 | Getting Raw and Honest about Hormones: What No One is Saying Until NOW About Estrogen!

• Crystal O'Connor • Season 2 • Episode 68

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Today I spoke with Marie Hoag, clinical hormone coach, HRT physician educator, perimenopause and menopause specialist, and speaker with nearly 20 years of professional experience. I have worked directly with hormone therapy physicians and patients utilizing the most advanced and cutting-edge hormone replacement therapy approaches on the market.

Find more about Marie Hoag at:

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Hello. I've got one of my favorite guests on. She's gonna be a regular, because if some of you have noticed, I've been talking about hormones a lot. I'm about that age, and to be honest, I've been really becoming more and more interested in this for the last 12 years because I was experiencing it. And I found my girl, I found the expert that has helped me. I'm working with her right now and she's taught me so much, and that is hard to come by someone that'll actually help you and teach you along the way. So I am trying to bring as many people to her as possible because this is a revolution. It's a healthcare revolution that's going on. I see it in a lot of industries, but especially this. So, what I have learned is mind blowing and life changing. So welcome, Marie. This is Marie Hoag, by the way. Hello. Hi. It's nice to be here. It's really nice to be here and to be working with you, Crystal. I love it. I love our conversations. It's life changing. I literally, since I've met Marie, I've changed my outlook on a lot of things going back, clear back to my childhood, like seriously. So we don't need to go back that far, yet. But right now, I just wanna say, look, the first time I started noticing that I really need was having physical issues was when I was having major heart palpitations, which I had in my teen years, too. But let's not go there yet. But I was told by I went to several different experts. They weren't hormone experts, but they were just several different doctors, and they were giving me all kinds of things that I should do and just, you know, mention of the, 'Well, you're just aging and that's just how it goes.' But it wasn't until these heart palpitations and sleep deprivation became so disruptive that it was disruptive to not just my life, but my business. And I was told, finally, that I was estrogen dominant. And guess what? That was wrong too. And Marie's gonna explain what that means. Yeah, there's a lot of confusion when it comes to estrogen dominance, and it's one of those conditions that people who have never really worked with estrogen talk about. Part of the confusion with estrogen dominance is people are under the impression that estrogen dominance means high estrogen, and that's just not necessarily, really, the case. It is to a degree. So high estrogen, like real high estrogen would be high circulating estrogen, high estrogen in the blood. That's different than estrogen dominance. Estrogen dominance is when women store estrogen in their tissues, their fat, and in their gut. This happens when women are not able to get rid of estrogen outta their body in a timely fashion. And so if women can't get rid of estrogen through natural detoxification process, then they'll typically store estrogen in these areas. And when estrogen is stored, especially a lot of estrogen is stored in tissues, fat and in the gut, this is the estrogen that makes women susceptible to diseases. It becomes very pathogenic. But this typically happens because, well, estrogen can't leave the body, but it can't leave the body because adequate levels of circulating estrogen have to be present. So what I mean is estrogen deficiency causes estrogen dominance. And this happens because circulating estrogen, if it's high enough, it allows the small subset of gut genes known as the estrobolome to prepare estrogen to leave the body. So this is why/how gut health effects, the detoxification of estrogen. So estrogen needs to be, pretty much produced, utilized and leave the body in a timely fashion. And blood circulating estrogen levels make this happen. I feel like I'm talking in circles. No, you're not, because what you're saying is what I needed someone to explain to me. You're explaining it really, really well. You explained this so much better than anybody else. When I listen to so many experts on Instagram and TikTok, I learn a little bit, but mostly I get confused because they speak in language that I feel like I need to be a scientist to understand what they're saying. Why? And I've asked you before, why are they doing that? Why do you think they're doing it? And you explained to me why you think they're doing it. Well, it's just people don't really understand what's going on. And this whole functional medicine mindset when it comes to women's hormone balancing, doesn't do women a big service. In fact, it's actually quite frustrating. So people talk about estrogen dominance tend to cause estrogen dominance in their patients. They don't understand that it takes plenty of circulating estrogen levels to process and prepare estrogen for elimination. So the estrobolome is strongly dependent upon adequate levels of circulating estrogen. So when women become estrogen deficient, the estrobolome malfunctions, as does other processes in the body like the menstrual cycle. And so the body can't prepare it. So what does it do? It stores it. And also when women are estrogen deficient, they aren't able to detoxify estrogen, even if it is prepared. A lot of women become constipated and pooping is one of the ways women get rid of estrogen. It's phase three detoxification. So, So when women are estrogen deficient, their digestion is off and they can't poop. When stool stays in the body for a while, the tissues will absorb the estrogen out of the stool into the tissues. The estrogen will also travel right back up through the colon and into the gut further shutting down the estrobolome. So now women are carrying this excess estrogen in their body, but they're not able to utilize it. It's not very functional when it comes to, uh, how a woman feels. And then what happens is these practitioners start to recommend supplements like DIM and talk to their patients about flushing estrogen out of the system. Yeah. What is that all about? Can I just ask what the heck that's all about? Because here's the thing, I almost did that, and I have told you, and I've told others that I actually was introduced to a book long time ago, and started myself putting on progesterone cream. It was from a Dr. Lee. We could talk about Dr. Lee and his approach. But the truth is, Marie gave me my first dose of estrogen and 10 symptoms were gone in about two hours. That all? Yeah, all the ones that I could see. And one of the things that I noticed was my joint pain diminished. And we could talk about all the other things, but there's just so many things to talk about here, and that's why I want you on my podcast as a regular. Well, let's wrap up the estrogen dominance thing for a moment. Yeah, so as I was putting on progesterone cream and eliminating a few of the side effects, one of the biggest side effects that I was having-- now, this was years ago when I started-- was right before my period, I I would cry about things that were irrational and it made that stop. So, you know, I need to be levelheaded. Hello? Like I'm running a business. I was raising three kids and that was really important and I became irrational. So why did I just tell you that? As I felt like when I was putting on, from what I read from Dr. Lee, when I was putting on the progesterone cream on my arm, I thought that I was pushing down the estrogen. From what I got from that book is that I was leveling out and lowering my estrogen and that it was a good thing. Yeah. It's not really what was happening. No. You know, Dr. Jonathan Lee is a pioneer in the hormone medicine industry. I mean, the field of hormone medicine. But he's very old school. Hormone replacement therapy has advanced beyond, well, second generation HRT, like what Dr. Lee uses. The mindset of this type of practitioner is to keep estrogen low at all times. The education is pretty much start low, go slow. So the general mindset is to keep women estrogen deficient. And then what happens is when you keep a woman estrogen deficient, blood circulating estrogen levels, then the body just malfunctions. The brain and the body don't work the way that it's supposed to, and the body will store estrogen instead of eliminating it. And that further shuts down the hormone production, especially the estrogen that's produced in the gut. And it really does contribute to gut dysbiosis, which also contributes to shutting down the estrobolome. Can you explain what as estrobolome means? So, the estrobolome is a small subset of gut genes. The responsibility of these genes is to prepare estrogen for elimination. It has a function and a process. And when circulating estrogen level is low, then the estrobolome malfunctions. Just like the digestive system, just like the menstrual cycle. All the processes in the body are dependent on adequate circulating estrogen levels to function. And so this is why what people who've never worked with adequate dosed estrogen before, see. They don't get a chance to see, 'Oh, if I get my patients estrogen up to array of particular range, there's no estrogen dominance in my patients.' This is why doctors who practice adequate dose estrogen therapy never mention estrogen dominance. It's just not an issue. It's an issue for those practitioners that are keeping women estrogen deficient. It's an estrogen deficiency condition that does not need to exist, but it exists in these functional medicine practitioners that keep estrogen low. So these doctors that say, 'Oh, well, we'll keep estrogen under a hundred.' Well, if you do that......that causes a lot of... Yeah. What's that? I said, that's bad. I just know that from my own experience. So my experience-- can I just share my experience?-- Was that within the last, well, I don't know how long it's been, this low. But when I met Marie and she did my labs, I had zero estrogen. I didn't know that was even a thing. Well, you had less than. Yeah. I had less than zero. It could give you a less than something. And the thing is, is that I didn't feel, you know-- you said that it was kind of rare that I was able to function the way I was. But I also hadn't told you what my medicine cabinet looked like. Like, I was taking a lot of things, I was doing a lot of research. When I say taking things, I was taking minerals and I couldn't go to sleep without a certain amount of magnesium. And so my house was just covered with it. And since taking estrogen, I'm not even taking the magnesium anymore. And I'm not saying to not take magnesium, but I do understand now that estrogen was playing a role in my depletion of minerals. Yeah, people don't realize really the significance of estrogen when it comes to absorbing nutrients in the gut. Estrogen's responsible for gut permeability. Yeah. But people don't talk about that. You can't absorb nutrients without estrogen. Estrogen is really left in the dark. So what you just said. So I just kept hearing online from all these experts or so-called experts that I needed to get my gut in order to get my hormones in order. But you're saying it's the hormones that will help get the gut in order? Yeah. When I work with patients, it's kind of a dual thing. It's best, especially when you take adequate dose hormone therapy. In order to give a woman adequate dose estrogen, she needs a healthy gut microbiome. The more dysbiotic the gut is, the harder time she'll have with the adequate dose estrogen because women with estrogen dominance are storing a lot of estrogen in their body. And then when you get 'em higher circulating estrogen, it's just too much for their body. However, some women need estrogen to help heal the gut and to help really curb the carbohydrate and sugar cravings that come with estrogen deficiency. So a lot of women, they have low energy. They have sugar and carb cravings. Yes. They're not sleeping. They have no energy, no motivation. They can't move and they... And they're told that they just need more discipline and they need to stop emotionally eating. Well, estrogen's responsible for every single one of those things. I mean, the National Library of Medicine is loaded with studies that talk about how estrogen influences the cravings. Cravings in women, carbohydrate cravings, sugar cravings, that it influences digestion. I mean, there are no shutter shortage of studies. It's just that everybody's ignoring them. Even though there aren't a whole lot of studies on higher dose estrogen therapy. For a reason. Not a good one. Even the low dose... Do you wanna talk about that? Are you ready to talk about it? We will at some point, but that's a rabbit hole that, I can certainly go down. But there's a reason... Well, can I just say what I think? I'll say what I've heard you say before. Who's to benefit from us being low estrogen when it basically is detrimental to our health? And in so many ways, like the list is outrageous and what there's like 80 symptoms that we're dealing with and they're debilitating symptoms. There's more than that. There's hundreds of them. There isn't one function in the female body that is not influenced by estrogen. Not one. That is so powerful. It affects a woman down to the cell, down to the nucleus of every cell. And so when you keep a woman estrogen deficient. Her brain and body just won't work. And going back to the whole estrogen dominance thing, if a woman really wants to get rid of estrogen dominance for good and forever, restore estrogen levels to optimal ranges, and your body will be able to detoxify and naturally methylate estrogen so that it can leave the body. The digestion works. Women are pooping on a regular basis because pooping is one of the best ways to detoxify estrogen, getting rid of it out of the body. But the whole effect of estrogen levels and its influence on insomnia, a woman's ability to sleep, her cravings, her energy-- I mean, to ask a woman to start an exercise program? This is why beginning, it's like I don't really talk so much. I talk to the patient about, that they do need to exercise. But I don't push it so much because they're so defeated when they come to me. I've tried everything. I've tried this, I've tried that. Can I just say this? Listen, and I interrupted you, but that was a big one for me cuz I used to love to exercise and that is how I fought any form of depression that I've ever had. Exercise would take care of it. And, I basically felt like I was hurting myself. So the recovery after I workout was horrible. So many reasons why I couldn't sustain a workout, and I used to love it. So that was another thing that I wasn't willing to accept. And it was so sad to think that like, I just don't have the energy to do it. And it was not just in my mind. But here's the thing. This gal that I follow online, she is a fitness expert and she's hit menopause, obviously, because she's basically not wanting to do it. And she's talking about midlife a lot and she's having a lot of injuries. She started having a lot of-- she just needs estrogen. But more and more, as I'm listening to her joke around online about how-- I mean here, she's surrounded by experts. So she did this telesummit. She's surrounded by experts. Yet she's laughing about her hot flashes. It's like you wouldn't have hot flashes if you went to Marie. Yeah, that's, that's just one of the symptoms of estrogen deficiency. No woman with adequate levels of circulating estrogen has a hot flash. It just doesn't happen. It just doesn't. So I luckily met Marie right when I started experiencing hot flashes. So I experienced them for only three weeks and I wasn't having it. Like there's no way I could continue living like that. As soon as I took the estrogen, it was gone. I had one I thought that I was having, but it was because I was talking about it. So I was talking about like, I haven't had any since you gave me. And you've started me really on a lower dose because I'm going to be increasing it as I go so that my body doesn't freak out. But I haven't had one. That's it. Yeah, estrogen really does play a role in everything. I mean, it just from hot flashes to heart palpitations. Women aren't told that if we restore your estrogen, you won't have another hot flash. Well, why aren't we told that? Well, because doctors like Dr. Lee, being a pioneer in this industry, the education that these physicians are getting is to use low dose therapies. And so if functional medicine doctors and even conventional medicine doctors are giving women low dose estrogen, well patients are still gonna have symptomology. And so the big difference with me and my approach and the physicians that I train, and the health coaches that I train to be hormone coaches, it's about optimization. It's about giving women enough estrogen. And back to the exercise thing. You know, women, when I talk to them about exercising, it's like they get really disgruntled. And I say, 'listen,' and you can attest to this cuz we were talking about it. And it happened to me too when I got on estrogen. I felt so defeated that when you start on estrogen, it does something to the brain. It actually wakes up the brain and it calms the brain, but yet it energizes the brain and it gives women a sense of the ability to do something. It gives women an organic energy and some motivation that they actually just feel good for no real good reason. So they go for a walk or they say, 'Oh, I'm think I'll make it to the gym', just because they organically just want to do it. And then they get a better result from their efforts because of the estrogen. And that is motivating. Yes. I, for years struggled with my knees hurting when I would run. And I used to love to run. And I know exactly when it happened and when my estrogen dropped. And it was after having my first biological child, I have an adopted child, but my first child that I birthed. That's when my knees started hurting and I couldn't run anymore. And guess what? Took estrogen and within what? I think it was just a day or two days. I just thought I'd experiment because my knees weren't hurting at all. And sure enough, I was able to run. And it was usually after the run where it was the most painful. and I ran about a quarter of a mile, no pain. That told me so much. Now, that was like 23 years ago that I had the first knee pain. I haven't been able to run for 23 years. That's the difference. That's insane. Yeah. That's actually one of the first things that gets fixed. You know, within an hour, there are several things that, you know, the body's like, whoa, I have estrogen. So now, that dose that you have goes to work with healing and repairing. And when you get that healthy dose of estrogen, it utilizes your water. Estrogen's responsible for body fluid balance, basically. And so when you have estrogen on board, the brain says, 'Hey, I need some lubrication between my joints because I'm not as old as I thought I was when my estrogen was low. But now that I don't think that I'm as old, I need these joints.' So one of the first things that happens is that cushion and lubrication comes back. So the joint pain, the cracking of the knees and the pain going up and down the stairs, that just goes away because now you have this fluid. And as your body is holding onto the water that you're drinking, it just starts to go to work at healing and repairing the body from head to toe, from the skin to the tissues, to the organs. Regenerating basically. Yeah. And the funniest thing, remember when I told you about my mouth? Like suddenly just within the, I think it was a day or two, started noticing my mouth filling up with blue... Saliva. Yeah. Actually, the way it's supposed to be. And that's the way it's supposed to be. And I'm like, wow. And my eyes haven't been dry and I was having dry issues. And I was thinking it was because I had that laser eye surgery. I'd always thought that that was it, which I think it did affect it. But still it was, that was about also the time that my estrogen started dropping around 40. And you know, it's just crazy, Crystal, is you've only had your third injection. I mean, your body hasn't even had a taste of having enough estrogen yet. So when your body gets plenty of it, cuz you're on a low therapeutic dose. You're on a therapeutic dose, but you're on the lower end. And when you give a patient therapeutic dosing, there is a titration process. There is a technique and a process of getting your hormones optimal. That's why I get excited with my job as a hormone coach. I I get to watch the transformation of each woman. And it's exciting when they come to me and start telling me,'oh my gosh, I no longer have this.' Or I feel so much better. I fell asleep. Or I have a libido. I mean, you were talking about your libido the other day. I mean, it's just crazy. And then how people respond to you because of the pheromonal exchange. And like I'm saying... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah....you're only in your third week of this. Third week. Yeah. I was jokingly, for those that now are like wondering what she's talking about, I asked her-- the whole pheromone thing that you explained, I believe. Because I looked not so great. I didn't have any makeup on. I had a ball cap on and I had three guys jump out of a car to run to open the door for me. And I'm like, 'What? What just happened?' I live in Naples, so it's like an older area. There's a lot of older men here. And every once in a while there's, you know, younger men around, especially in Fort Myers. But, I started noticing men's reactions. And I wasn't doing anything special. I wasn't looking any certain way. And it just kind of-- it was interesting. That was something that was interesting. I was not expecting that when I first started, too. And not only do men respond, but women respond in a very, and not in a sexual way. Yeah. But in a very favorable, connected way where they won't ignore you and try to avoid eye contact. It's really interesting, especially the young women, they feel that you're more approachable. But yeah, the libido... Maybe it's the lack of the pensive look on my face. Well, it's so nice to have that pheromonal exchange and that messaging because you actually feel like you're back in the game. Yeah. And it's not that you're sending out sexual signals. It's just the female chemistry. Yeah, cause trust me, I was not. Yeah. And it's just that people will respond. Everything that you have said to me so far over the past three weeks. I get the exact same responses over and over and over and over again. You could be just any woman USA, just you say the same things at the same times when your hormones are at the same levels. Okay? So that's a good topic right there. I interrupt you a lot, but I wanna just make sure that I... Oh, that's okay....I hit things. This, the talk from all the experts online, especially the holistic world, functional medicine world, they talk about us being all different and we're all different in how much we need. Can you touch on that? Cuz you don't agree with that. Bioindividuality? Yeah. Yeah. There's this big misconception that everybody's individual, so to speak, and the hormones that work for one woman won't work for another. And I just really don't see that as really being the case. I've worked with patients in a hormone clinic for many, many, many, many years. And most women do best when estrogen is maintained in a certain level, and there is a technique and a process to achieve that. And there's just a handful of different ways, different types of HRT systems that I look at as tools. And there are different tools that can achieve these clinical results. So where one woman would use an injection and another one would use a transdermal cream. But the clinical goal is the same. Clinical goal is you wanna make sure estrogen is hovering in the 350-550 range, never really a drop in below 300 ever. And so there are just only a handful of different ways that you can achieve that, those circulating levels. It's not terribly individual. And when people work with adequate dose estrogen before they see, it's not that difficult to see, oh, well the 80% of my patients do best in this range. And the majority of my patients respond real well with this method of delivery. So to me, that's not very bio-individual. And that's actually good news. Because it's not as complicated as they're letting it to be. The people that talk about how complicated it is to balance hormones, don't really understand the clinical result or how to get there. They find it difficult because they have no clinical goal. There is no clinical destination they're shooting for. It's kind of like this exercise wheel of symptoms treating with low dose estrogen and then selling supplements to treat the symptoms of estrogen deficiency that otherwise exist if they figured out how to restore estrogen and progesterone appropriately. Yeah. It's estrogen, but estrogen dictates how all their hormones in the female body functions. So I mostly talk about estrogen, but when a woman has a uterus, estrogen and progesterone need to be looked at as two halves of one main sex hormone. I just wanna make that clear. But progesterone does not function the way that it's supposed to without enough estrogen to tell it to do so. Women can live without progesterone, believe it or not. Women have a really hard time living without estrogen. Yeah, I would have heart palpitations so bad that I started wondering if, you know, like, I was dying. And I don't say that to be funny. But you know, I would feel so fatigued sometimes walking upstairs and then the heart would start and stop. And I would think that magnesium was the answer cuz I did get a reaction from magnesium. But I never really put two and two together that it was really estrogen that was causing me needing the magnesium so much and so desperately. And I think that, with the studies pointing to lack of estrogen being detrimental to the heart, and the leading cause of death for women over 50 is heart disease, and estrogen being the answer, I think you have-- and I don't think that I'm sounding over the top-- I really think me finding you saved my life. Me continuing down that road of feeling fatigued and the heart palpitations, all of that? That that was not good. Yeah, so the more women understand what's happening to their brains and bodies, the easier it is for them to fix it. And if they continue to go to these function-- and I'm not saying all functional medicine practitioners are like this, but this is where women really need to really vet the person that is going to be managing their hormone therapy. And what I say is you need to vet the person that's managing your mental health and your physical health because this person is really important. If they under dose estrogen, you will have the side effects of estrogen deficiency still. They will just self supplements to manage those symptoms. And so I am of the mindset, let's just restore estrogen. The reason why women get heart palpitations, just for example, estrogen's responsible for tissues in the body. And muscles. So when women are estrogen deficient, they lose their muscle mass, which is mostly because they're not holding onto water anymore. The body really needs water to build these tissues. And so when women are estrogen deficient, they become dehydrated. They get constipated, their skin dries up, their mouth dries up, their eyes dry up, their hair dries up. Everything in their body dries up. When this atrophy happens in the body, the tissues and organs are also an atrophy. So the heart is a muscle, and it's one of those organs that go into atrophy. And then this is when women get heart palpitations, when the heart gets into stress. The heart palpitations go away shortly after estrogen because the brain says, 'Hey, I'm gonna hold onto this water and use it to rebuild my tissues and my organs and my muscles.' And so the heart gets stronger and it increases the health of the cardiovascular system, but also with shortness of breath. Cuz if you look at lungs, lungs are a tissue. And they do go into atrophy and women will get shortness of breath because they can't take in a whole breath. They'll do something like[breathing] and they just can't take in that breath. When you give them plenty of estrogen, then the water that they hold onto now goes to work to rebuild the lungs. So now the lungs get rebuilt. And this is why fibromyalgia goes away, because now the muscles are rebuilt and you don't have the nerve... Yeah. I never thought I had fibromyalgia. I've known people that have complained about it when I was in the health and wellness field and worked with dieticians. But one thing that I would have is nerve pain in my wrists. And that has subsided. And I told you I would have, my hands go numb a lot when I was driving and when I would wake up in the morning, my hands were numb. And I see that estrogen affects every single thing. Everything in the female body from head to toe. That is not an overstatement. And for conventional and functional medicine to continue to keep estrogen deficient in women, I believe is a crime. And the more women understand how much estrogen they need and how their body really responds to it, the more they're going to seek out doctors and health coaches to help them achieve the levels that they need. But part of the problem is none of the institutions are teaching adequate dose estrogen replacement. And they're teaching keep the hormones low and put the fear of estrogen causes cancer into the minds of these people. Cuz if you do that, doctors will be afraid to prescribe estrogen and they'll try to talk patients off of it. When you do, that's when I ask the question, who stands to benefit keeping women estrogen deficient? As we've been talking, when women get enough-- and like I said, you haven't even started. You're still on your low therapeutic dose. I mean, your body has some healing and repairing to do. And then pretty soon, you forget about, 'Oh, I used to have depression. I used to have anxiety, I used to have...' And you start thinking about all the things you used to have. But you don't think about it cuz you're just going about your life now, living. And not in these Facebook groups and your depression group and your anxiety group... And you know what? We haven't even touched on-- We're gonna end this because we're gonna do another segment on how it is linked to dementia. That's a big one. And cognitive difficulties. And the whole brain fog is laughed about. It's not funny. I don't think it's funny. Yeah. Well, I guess, yeah, I'm about at the end of my row with people laughing at these symptoms. These very debilitating... It's not funny. I have an aunt that's 67 and she's basically unable to take care of herself because of dementia. And she's only 67. Yeah. There's actually a lot of studies in the National Library of Medicine on how estrogen impacts and prevents dementia, cognitive decline. My goal, what I hope women do is to educate themselves about the truth about estrogen. And to understand how it affects the brain and the body. Because working as a clinical hormone coach for the past 20 years, I just see that there aren't the mental illness diagnoses in women who have adequate dose estrogen. It just doesn't exist. Yeah. It's one of the clinical indicators that we monitor. Women just don't get depression or anxiety. So, that's the thing that affected me the most in all of this when I first started years ago. Can I ask you, you teach health and wellness. You've got a lot going on here in the future. Some really big projects, but let's talk about this masterclass that we're gonna have next week. I'm gonna actually help her hold this masterclass. And it is specifically for who? Who do you want listening to this masterclass? I tell you, I just, I've had a lot of requests over the years from health coaches, physicians, and, healthcare practitioners who want to know what I know. They don't want me to teach them what I've come to learn over the past 20 years working with adequate dose hormone therapies and coaching patients on hormone therapy. So I did decide to-- well, one, my practice is saturated and I can't take on too many more patient clients, and I'm looking to train health coaches who are interested in learning what I know. And I don't mean low hormone education. Yes. I'm talking about... Can I say low dose bs? Yeah. It just doesn't work. And so I'm looking to train, medical professionals who are really interested in how to properly restore, RESTORE estrogen and progesterone and other pertinent hormones for women to levels that mimic her in her reproductive prime. And so there is a technique and a process, and I'm happy to offer this masterclass. But I can only take on a certain amount of clients in this class. So the enrollment is open for a couple of weeks. And I do have this informational webinar where I'll go through what that masterclass looks like. So anybody who's interested, they can go to hormonecoachmasterclass.com. And that's hormone coach masterclass.com and you can get some more information and register for the webinar. I'll be talking about a lot more than just the masterclass. So there's a lot to learn, and I'll answer some questions, too. So you can come with your questions and you can learn about what I have to bring to the table with teaching other healthcare professionals what I do. Okay. And then anyone that's listening or watching, it's in the show notes. Just go to the show notes and there's a link to where to sign up to get information to be on the class or be in the class. If you are a health coach, a wellness coach, and you wanna actually help your clients lose weight and actually help them get better and stay better, you want to listen to what she has to say. Cuz this can actually be life-changing for your patients and business changing for you. I say things that nobody else says. I can count on two hands, if that, how many people have had, you know, experience working with adequate dose hormone therapies before. So I'm excited to share this and I appreciate you helping me out with that. And I'm excited to actually share you with everyone. Okay. Thank you everyone. Bye-Bye.

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