70 | Beyond Menopause: Rethinking Estrogen Dosage for Optimal Women's Wellness with Marie Hoag

Are you prepared to unveil the truth about hormone balancing and its impact on your health? Today I spoke with Marie Hoag, clinical hormone coach, HRT physician educator, perimenopause and menopause specialist, and speaker with nearly 20 years of professional experience. I have worked directly with hormone therapy physicians and patients utilizing the most advanced and cutting-edge hormone replacement therapy approaches on the market.

Find more about Marie Hoag at:

• Website: www.MenopauseMoxie.com
• Webinar Registration: www.HormoneCoachMasterclass.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/menopausemoxie

Sign up with Ageless Ambition by visiting https://www.AgelessAmbition.com

You can also schedule a call with me or one of my team members at https://www.calendly.com/wealthy-wellness

Health and Wellness practitioners: you can learn more at http://www.WealthyWellnessAcademy.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Hormone Balancing in Menopause
• 13:26 The Hidden Agenda
• 19:58 The Importance of Clinical Hormone Coaching
• 27:33 Estrogen and Women's Mental Health

Transcript

0:09

Hi Marie. Hi Crystal. You know, Marie, I've been doing some research lately on menopause and hormone balancing in the business of menopause itself, but I've noticed that there are just thousands of experts out there, and they're all saying the same thing, and they're talking in circles. But you are different in a lot of ways. First, you're very direct, you're very confident. You don't talk in circles, and I understand what you're saying. But what you're saying, seems to be very different. So as I look and listen at what others are saying, it made me want to look more into your background and why you say what you do. And you say it with such confidence. And it's the kind of confidence that I don't hear from others. So today I wanted to break down your hormone medicine background in four areas. Do you wanna do that with me? Sure thing. Okay. So, let's talk about your education and training first and anti-aging and functional medicine. Do you wanna start there? Yeah, we could start there. But that it kind of works in conjunction with my clinical experience. Those things were happening simultaneously. Well, I started working in the hormone clinic about 20 years ago. Just another consulting physician that I was working with to help him put together packages for his office and I noticed that his patient clinical results were different than other doctor's offices that I had gone to. And it really intrigued me. I mean, so much so that I wanted to work directly in this clinic. So, it was really the results of what I was witnessing from a clinical perspective, that patients were just-- things were changing with them. So the doctors I was working with were prescribing therapeutic dose hormone replacement therapy. And it was really at the beginning of doctors looking outside of the box of just conventional low dose hormones. So there are some doctors who, you know, are big believers with adequate dose estrogen therapy. But there aren't very many actually. I noticed that. Yeah. Because the doctors are afraid of it. I mean, there's a reason for this. So as I was working in this clinic, I noticed that patients were getting better and saying things that I didn't hear in other offices. Like patients were saying they no longer had depression or anxiety or high cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure, fibromyalgia. There were so many conditions, and I just found that really interesting and wanted to know why that was the case. So then I started to look into the education and training in the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, the Institute for Functional Medicine, and several other places because as I was watching this in the clinic, as patients were getting better mentally and physically, I kept asking the doctors I was working with, why isn't this frontline therapy? And one, is this actually happening before my eyes? Because I've never seen this before. And it seems to be consistent. It's not like it's this patient here or this patient here. Like why is this consistent? And you know, I say, so why isn't this? And then of course, you know, you hear me say all the time, who stands to benefit keeping women estrogen deficient? So that's the question I was asking. It's like, why isn't hormone optimization, you know, first-line therapy for physicians? So I wanted to see what the education was like and the training of these physicians to see, you know, what's being taught. You know, where are these? So when I first started looking at the education and training available, it was probably mid to late 2003, and there weren't very many places that offered hormone replacement therapy, but they were popping up. It was almost like, a new wave because Suzanne Summers was writing books on hormone replacement therapy and balancing hormones and bioidenticals were coming in. And so there was this movement and, so now, there was this education. So I have to say I probably had the equivalent of a couple medical fellowships in functional and anti-aging medicine, just with the amount of conferences I've been to and the training with that. It's just been quite interesting. But I think the biggest eyeopening issue with that is what we were learning in the conferences. We would take it back to the clinic and there were some flaws to it. It wasn't exactly working like they were saying. Like, prescribe this hormone replacement therapy to your patient and these are the results you should get. But that wasn't always the case. And then if it was, it certainly didn't last. And so that, you know, really piqued my interest too. So that made me really wanna start digging around in other areas. I just found it interesting how you can actually watch a patient transform over a relatively short period of time doing, you know, eating the right foods, and getting daily exercise and taking the right hormone therapy. It seems actually quite simple. Okay. So you saw a pattern with working one-on-one. So you worked with hundreds of patients, right? And then you were learning and realizing there's some kind of a gap. There's something that you found to be incongruent With what they were saying. What were they saying that was not adding up? What was happening is a lot of what they were saying was true with regards to the clinical results women get when you give them estrogen. But the problem is that the estrogen they prescribe is at such low doses that it stops working in a very short period of time. So are you saying that the body kind of adapts or something? Kind of like... Yeah, it adapts through receptors. And, you know, it's just like taking a pain med after surgery. You need to up your dose because your body adapts to that first dose. And it's like that with estrogen up to a certain degree. And then your body fully adapts and then your body's able to utilize it. It's part of the technique and process of optimizing hormones for women. So why do you think they're not upping the dose and recognizing this-- what you were seeing? Why are they acting like they don't see it? Because you know that they're working with women as well and seeing this and they're not addressing it. Yeah. So when I go into these lectures, every time I go back to a conference and they're talking about female hormone balancing, usually after a lecture there's the opportunity for Q and A. For the attendees to ask questions of the lecturer, and I usually, after I walk up to the microphone and ask, you know, okay, so what do you recommend at that point where the hormone replacement therapy stops working? Because if you pay attention, it stops working within three to six months. For some women, nine months. It just depends on how healthy the woman is. And there's no real answer. Usually what happens is, what they say is, "Well, you'll have to figure that out on your own. You'll have to adjust the hormones according to the patient's symptoms." But that doesn't always work out because there's no real goal in mind because doctors are also told, "Oh, well, but don't dose it too high. And here's the answer to your other question, is because estrogen causes cancer." So there's this estrogen makes a woman feel good and alive, but then it stops working. You can't increase it because it causes cancer. But we can't really show that. And is there a research to back that up? Oh yeah. No. There's research to back up that estrogen causes cancer? Oh no, no. There is a study that a lot of --people who have never worked with estrogen before tend to quote the Women's Health Initiative study, the WHI, that's supposed to scare everybody away from estrogen. That's supposed to show that estrogen causes cancer when it doesn't. In fact, I wrote an article on that, on the truth about estrogen and cancer, and you can read about that on my website, menopausemoxie.com. But it's actually a really good article to read for those of your listeners who are confused about estrogen and cancer, and that should clear it up. If not, then DM me and let's have a conversation. But as long as doctors are under the impression that estrogen causes cancer, they will under dose it. And so what ends up happening is these doctors-- my questions don't get answered because they don't know what to say. Yeah. They repeat, start low, go slow. And I say, okay, well then at what point do you increase the dose? And then how much is that? And then how do you know when you need to do it again? And there's just no answers. And then when they find out I'm not a doctor, they usually, you know, ask me to sit down or something. And I'm just like,"Yeah, but..." It's hard for me to believe anybody in this room is having success. So you say that estrogen gets rid of depression and headaches and that sort of thing, but you know it does for a period of time, but you also know it stops working and that's what nobody's talking about. And what happens is these women get prescriptions for the symptoms of estrogen deficiency and other hormone deficiencies that otherwise wouldn't exist if estrogen were properly restored. And I just think that it's a big disservice to women. And I further got disappointed and very disenchanted with functional medicine. First I was excited when I discovered functional medicine. I'm like, okay, now this is how medicine should be. I think this is what doctors are expecting when they go to medical school is to address the root cause of the problem and fix it as naturally as possible. And that's the whole concept behind functional medicine. So when we started to integrate functional medicine into the practice, I noticed that it was a different business model and it was a similar business model than conventional low dose hormone replacement therapy. Functional medicine doctors have some sort of hormone replacement therapy training, which is the big draw with women who are trying to get their hormones balanced. What women don't know is doctors are only trained on low dose hormones, whether they're a conventional medicine physician or a functional medicine physician, it's all about low dose hormones. So functional medicine, to get to the root cause of a woman's cruddy menstrual cycles, headaches, migraines, depression, mood swings, that sort of thing. The patient, well, is low on estrogen. Well, instead of fully restoring it, they give the low dose. And instead of selling pharmaceuticals to patients through the pharmacy, the patients are now buying supplements to manage the symptoms. And you know, me, I come back to that otherwise wouldn't exist if estrogen were properly restored. And that's part of my disenchantment with functional medicine. and so that's really what sets me apart from other people is I'm not really interested in managing the symptoms of hormone deficiency such as perimenopause. Perimenopause is an estrogen deficiency condition, and it is preventable and reversible, just like as PMS, PMDD and a lot of other menstrual issues that women are told that they have to live with and are shelled out psychotropic drugs and told they're crazy and they end up getting fat and have cravings and it's just, it's kind of a nightmare for that. So yeah, I have had a lot of medical training and alternative medicine, but, it's still similar to conventional medicine where the goal is to keep the patient in a state of deficiency. So I say it's kind of like, I wanna say functional medicine shame on you for not fully restoring estrogen and continuing to use suboptimal doses, some subtherapeutic doses. I think the Institute for Functional Medicine needs to take their estrogen education to the next level. And I'm pretty tired of hearing people say, well, oh, we don't really know. We still need more data. We don't really know about estrogen. Let's talk about data. Can we? So can you share with us the research that you've conducted yourself on estrogen and estrogen deficiency diseases? Well see, when I was trying to figure out what everybody's talking about as I'm getting this education at the conferences, and not only that, but applying what we learned in the clinic to see the clinical results. And so now I'm trying to measure, you know, the clinical results. I'm trying to find a way because I noticed that when women, depending on what the level of estrogen is, they feel a certain way. So if estrogen's at a hundred women will feel this way. If it's at 200, they'll feel this way. If it's 300, they'll feel this way. And I saw this consistency patient after patient after patient. And so then I was like, well, if a non-physician, some woman in Northern California can figure this out, can see this happening, then why can't everybody else? Is this information available? So that's when I started to do my real digging. And I tell you, I went down a lot of rabbit holes. But I started digging. I wanted to learn more about estrogen and estrogen deficiency diseases, the cause of estrogen deficiency, what contributes to it, how to prevent it, what happens to women's brains and bodies when they're estrogen deficient, all the diseases that go with it. And one of the biggest eye-opening experiences in my research was the data that didn't exist. And, you know, I just noticed that there was data missing. That there were studies that were actually published in the National Library of Medicine that had been intentionally removed. So when I started doing my research, I would find these doctors who think, who actually liked estrogen, who did studies in higher dose estrogen therapies. And these are the ones you can't find. Then I came across Dr. Robert Wilson and found his book Feminine Forever, and that's more of a documentary of his clinical experience using adequate dose estrogen therapies. So he was doing this in the fifties. And so I came across the studies that existed in the National Library of Medicine of his. So what I did is I went in his book Feminine Forever, and I went in the back and I started to pull up to look up all the studies that he used as reference in that book. And I was shocked at how many of those studies weren't available, that were available and that are no longer available. And then, that made me more curious. It's like, okay, well why isn't this information? Why can't I find a study that shows that when estrogen is maintained in the three 50 to five 50 range, that doesn't exist? So of course that makes me wanna dig deeper. And, so then, I hired a document research company who prides themselves on locating the documents of any kind within 24 hours. I wanted to find all these studies of Dr. Wilson's. I read the book, I know what they should say. But I wanted the studies myself, cuz there's still people that were quoting studies and I'm like, I'm not sure why you're quoting that because I can't find. If I can't find it, you can't find it. So how can you quote a study that's not there? So anyway, so I hired these people, and about 48 hours later I get the call from the owner and he says, "Wow." He says, it's not often I get cases on my desk of, you know, when my employees can't find a document. I usually get these cases and, I usually call the customer and ask them why? Because usually there's a reason the papers aren't available, the documents aren't available. And it's usually something going on that somebody wants to prevent them from becoming available. So I told him. I said, "Listen, I'm doing a lot of digging now on estrogen deficiency diseases and restorative protocols, and all the studies that show how estrogen is cancer preventative. And it's, it's narrow protective, cardioprotective. It actually protects the woman's brain and body and mood and mind and mental health. And I can't find these studies." And he says, "Who doesn't want these studies available?" He says that's the next thing, cuz that'll help me try to locate them. And I said, I don't know who stands to benefit. Cuz that's what he said. Who benefits by you not finding these studies? And that's where I got that. And I'm like, well that's a good question. What happens if women got enough? And he started asking me some questions. What happens if women got enough estrogen? I said, well, they don't have mental illness. About 80 to 85% of mental illness diagnosis in women go away when their estrogen is fully restored. Wow. And it's easy. And it's not that difficult. It's easy, relatively easy. And so when I told him this, he says, I'll get these studies for you. And, he didn't charge me, but he found those studies. And he said he even had trouble in Europe finding them, but he ended up getting the hard copies. He went to London, some London library and one of his assistants, was able to actually take the medical journal that published it and make a hard copy on a printer copier in the library. And then that got me thinking. It's like, okay, well this is really interesting. So doctors are intentionally, they don't teach us in medical school, so doctors are intentionally left in the dark with how to fully restore estrogen. There's actually a lot of data on the support of estrogen, even in low doses on all the positive benefits of it. So even though everybody's saying that it causes cancer, well one, we can't find that study the other is all the benefits of it. And so also around this time, there was a patient that came in who worked for the FDA. He worked for the clinical trials.gov is who he worked for. That it was his job to approve or deny any clinical trials that were coming through. One of the first things they taught him was to automatically deny any studies that were coming through on high dose estrogen therapy. So when I'm putting all the pieces of the puzzle together here, all the way to the FDA say you eat this food pyramid. If you eat that, then we can start shutting down your ovaries. Then we can put you on psychotropic drugs and call you crazy and fat. It's a real good way to c control women, really. Yeah. You know, I do this mostly because of the mental illness that doesn't exist in most women, not all. I mean, not everything is all. But anyway. What can you tell us about your professional experience with hormones? I know you've shared a little bit. As a coach, clinical hormone coach? So as I'm watching the patients adapt to their hormones, get good hormone therapy, we didn't pay much attention in the beginning to diet and lifestyle. We just thought we can give patients hormones and that would cure everything. And it did a lot of things. It helped a lot. But we also, what I noticed, is that not all women responded the same, even though they got the same hormone replacement therapy, the same dose. The same method of delivery, the same trajectory. And so I was curious as to why are we getting five different clinical results from the exact same thing? And so this is when I dug a bit deeper into the differences in these women. And so there are about 27 different criteria I started to look at in the differences in these patients. From the history of the diet, if the patient was vaginally born and or breastfed, the health of the mother, the mother's gut health when she delivered. Those sorts of things play a role in a woman's ability to get her hormones balanced, basically. And so I realized that the common denominator or the biggest influencing factor of the clinical efficacy of any HRT a woman takes is the health of her gut microbiome. So what I found was the differences in the severity of gut dysbiosis with each clinical category. And so I started to measure their clinical indicators. So I noticed that when I was monitoring, like, cause I monitor lab work once every four months. So as I monitor lab work I noticed changes in mood, behavior, physical things on the body, like joint pain going away and muscle mass coming in back and tone and libido and that sort of thing. But I also noticed that coincided with estrogen levels. And then food impacted that as well. So then I put a program together, a full program that actually included the diet that supports the advanced hormone replacement therapies that we were working with a therapeutic dose, HRT systems and a a lifestyle. So that's when I started the first program, my first program of hormone balancing. And know that patients needed or handheld through the process. Getting hormones balanced the right way is a process over a period of time. And so I coached them through that process and that's where I saw the need for that. And that's where the clinical hormone coach came into play cuz I took the hormone replacement therapy the doctor prescribed and I helped the patient navigate their way through that with their diet and lifestyle. And I'm one that has worked with you. I'm still within the first 30 days, and I see the importance of the hormone coach. Because if I just had a doctor-- first of all, my experience with doctors is they don't have a lot of time to answer a lot of questions. And so what I like about having access to you as a hormone coach is that you fill in all of the gaps and there is information that you share ahead of time. So that's actually diminished some of the questions. There's a lot of questions that a person has because they're experiencing a lot of different changes going on, and all positive, for the most part. I haven't had any negative. But I also experienced things that I wasn't expecting, and then it makes me wonder, well, and then you help fill in the gaps there. So there's a lot of power in that. And that, from a personal experience and from what I've heard, is what keeps a person in the game. Meaning, you know, keeps going and not gives up. Because that first 30 days is kind of iffy, isn't it? Well, yeah, it is because women don't really know what's happening. And because I only work with advanced hormone replacement therapy protocols, the dose that the patient gets is therapeutic levels, a dose of a therapeutic amount, which means that it actually impacts the brain and body of the patient. So when the patient is experiencing things-- like you haven't had a lot of negative clinical indicators. Women will experience both positive symptomology and negative symptomology in the beginning. But it's not always the same. And there's a lot of questions because a lot of women think, am I just feeling this way because I want to feel this way? And so, yeah, I do tell you things ahead of time because it's very consistent. I mean, a trajectory to the hormone sweet spot, the patient feels certain things and they say certain things because they're experiencing certain things. And so would you say, I feel this, I feel this, is this normal? This is typically how it unfolds. Like within the first hour or so, the first half of a day of a patient, it's almost like at the end of a storm, the clouds start to clear and the sunshine comes through. There's like this brain fog clearing that is questionable. It's noticeable, but questionable because now usually the patient's like, well, is this, am I just making this up? Do I really feel this way? And then that's where it begins. And that begins within an hour or less. And then it just starts to unfold from there. And the longer a woman has adequate levels of estrogen, the longer her body has to use it to heal and repair. And depending on how long she's been estrogen deficient will tell you how long it'll be to get to the full benefits of it. I mean, women can get the benefits of estrogen if it's dosed correctly for up to over two years. So, yeah, for me to tell you, your boobs might hurt. But you'll feel good and you'll start sleeping. And you experience those things. Then, when you do experience them, then you know they're gonna go away because I'm telling you when they're going away and why they're going away. And when women don't have that clinical coaching, they don't understand what's happening. They don't understand what we're trying to do in this phase of building receptors. We're building a receptor foundation, and there's certain things that women experience. And if they didn't know what this process is, they would've made a dosing adjustment thinking that wasn't the right dose. Yes, yes. Or they'll go to another doctor thinking the other doctor's gonna know more and they don't realize that they're not even giving in enough time. You know, so with the coach, I found that if I can educate the patient-- because the patient has to know what's going on. I don't want women to ever be in the dark with what's going on in their bodies. They have to know when their body is requiring estrogen. Cuz like I've mentioned before, the relationship between the clinical hormone coach, the HRT prescriber and the patient is a ménage à trois relationship and it's intertwined. And so I do hold the hands and my goal is to hold the patient's hand to the hormone sweet spot and beyond if they want to. But my goal is to get them hormonally balanced I, really, hopefully never hear from them again because there's no need. Yeah. But most women at some point in their life need adjustments along the way, or they need to change up their method of delivery or their dose because their brains and bodies require more or less. Yeah, and I'll just add that, you already know this, Marie, but I'll just add for the listeners here that I had 10 symptoms diminish and completely go away within 24 hours. So I just wanted to add that. So, tell me about your experience. Do you wanna just go ahead and go into that? You are a woman, obviously, and that's kind of a bonus because, you know, when we have a male doctor or a male hormone coach, they don't completely understand. You know? In their defense, like how could they? So you went through this yourself and it's why you have so much passion behind it. Am I right? Yes, yes. You know, the doctors I worked with, it's really funny. The patients would come to me, cause I would meet with the patient after they met with the HRT doctor, and I would teach them how to take the hormones and so on and so forth. And it's funny because they say, "Oh, he knew exactly how I felt. He really got me." And I'm like, "No, he really doesn't get you. You're just a 5000th woman who has sat in that chair and has said the exact same thing, and he's reciting the exact same thing to you because we know exactly what's going to happen to you when we prescribed you hormones." Because estrogen is just so predictable. It's predictable no matter what level it is. If it's at low levels, well then it's gonna cause problems for women. And if it's at optimal levels, it's going to be healing and therapeutic and give a woman's brain and body back. So for me, and this is why I've been so passionate, why I started the Panacea Sciences Foundation for hormone medicine research, is I had been on psychotropic drugs from the age of 17 to 35. I was told I was severely clinically depressed. I was told that I was out of psychotropic drug cocktails. I was told that my next line of therapy was shock therapy. And I was 35, and I had a couple of small babies, and it really bothered me to think that my future, and I was told that it was just a one of series of many to come in my life that I just could not believe that this was my life. Because I didn't feel like I had a mental illness, even though they were telling me. Doctors were saying, "Well..." They were more reluctant to diagnose a patient with bipolar. Though though I was exhibiting that behavior, those behavioral traits. They didn't know what to do with me. Doctors are not taught that, oh, when your patient feels good in the follicular phase of their cycle, then they feel cruddy in the luteal phase. Then they feel good in the follicular phase. Well, that may mimic bipolar disorder, but in reality, that's low estrogen. So what happens is these young women, they get put on, you know, birth control pills and antidepressants to control these menstrual cycles. And that's really the beginning of the system, the exercise wheel that young women are put on, and now they're prescribed these medications that estrogen deficiency brings. Like, you know, psychotropic drugs, like antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds. So all these things were actually taking place, at the same time. I was educating myself at these hormone conferences. I was figuring out how to help women working with hormone doctors in the hormone clinic. I was doing my own research and coming to --what I was trying, hoping that wasn't the case, but realizing that is this a setup? You know, it's hard not to think of it as a conspiracy. You know, why? And I kept asking myself, who stands to benefit from this? Why aren't we restoring estrogen in women? It's not that difficult. I mean, if I can like step back a bit and take a look at here, why can't anybody else? And why is this information purposely kept from physicians? And then having my own experience of, for the first time in my life, not having to be on a medication, feeling good absolutely every day for no real good reason. That was probably the weirdest thing for me. Because I didn't have more than two good days a month, if that. And it actually just dwindled down to one and a half, to two good days a month. The rest of the month it was just horrible. So basically what you're saying is you think as well as Wilson, in his book and just a handful of others, you think that a lot of mental illnesses would dissipate and go away if they had adequate doses of estrogen. Obviously I'm talking about women right now. It is my conjecture that estrogen restores women's mental health, that they can get rid of about 80 to 85%-- honestly, I think it's more than that-- of mental illness diagnoses. It's just what I've seen. And I know you can't say that. I know physicians can't say that. And I haven't told my story very clearly before because of this. Because if I tell my story, then I have to say things like this. I have to say what I saw. Yeah. It's just what I've seen and I know that, you know, my stuff gets taken down and I get banned on social media. And I just think this information needs to get out. It does. It does. And it's really too bad. It's too bad that women are suffering of all ages. Not just menopause, but all ages. Intentionally. I feel it's intentional. It's hard for me not to think it's intentional. Yeah. So, the misrepresentation of the research from the Women's Health Initiative, I have noticed that it's being talked about more. So there is some positive light being shed on estrogen with regards to that. So there are a few people that I have found that are saying that, but they're still talking about low doses of estrogen. In the same breath, which is really frustrating. So, I don't know where their clients go when they still have symptoms, but I think what's happening Is that they'll minimize some of their symptoms, just not all, and it'll stop working. And, they're again told the same story. Well, you're just aging. And so you're saying, just like Dr. Wilson was saying in his book, that is now almost impossible to find, that you can completely restore and prevent menopause. Yeah. You can. A lot of women do, and a lot of women freak out about it and don't want to, mostly because they've had horrible periods before, which is an estrogen deficiency issue for most. And then women always ask, why would I wanna have a menstrual cycle for life? And I explain it to our patients that as long as your brain is under the impression that you are in your reproductive prime life, your life stage of your reproductive prime by way of the signaling from the estrogen and the regular menstrual cycle, then your brain and body do not deteriorate and decline in the same manner it does when estrogens allowed to become deficient. This is why it's so dangerous for women to be without estrogen. As you've heard me say many times, estrogen impacts every single function in a woman's body. There isn't one thing that isn't dependent upon adequate levels of estrogen to function. And if you keep women estrogen deficient, there's a lot of mental illness diagnoses. It's like this. Butte County where I live has one of the highest breast cancer incident rates, if not the highest in the entire state. And I've been working with doctors over the past 20 years with thousands of patients using only high dose. Well, it's not high dose. I call it adequate dose. It's high dose to those who use low dose and dose. It's like, no, it's adequate therapeutic dose. There is such a thing as high dose, and that's not what this is. And that this is all we do. We don't do anything else. This is all we do for men and women. And the data that I've collected over the years testing clinical indicators, 50 clinical indicators on both men and women, and monitoring blood labs in real time with those clinical indicators once every four months gives me a lot of data. And the reason I started my research foundation was because of this information. We would've seen such a significantly higher breast cancer incident rate than any other physician in town. It would've been just blatant. And it hasn't been. In fact, what I believe I've seen is a reduction of breast cancer, but I'm certainly want to show the mental illness that doesn't exist, because that's the real torture chamber right there. That's just the real prison that women are kept in. It affects families, relationships, marriages, how a woman feels about herself. And what she does in the world. What she does with her talents, what she does with her mind, her time. Every thought in a woman's brain is affected by estrogen. Well, it affects her kids because you think about a woman on many not having what she needs and how that affects how can she be what she needs to be as a mother to her children? And that window of seven years, 10 years, you just developed, a child that has now issues. Do you wanna touch on generational issues with regard to what a mother passes on to. Or is that maybe for another podcast? We can certainly talk about it. In fact, we can tease it for another podcast because it certainly is something that needs to be addressed or recognized. But yes, one of my most current areas of research is the transgenerational and inheritance of ovarian dysfunction, and the rise of gender neutralism in this country. You'll probably be hearing a lot more about that from me because there aren't too many people that are looking into why is there such an uptick in gender neutralism and the increased population of people who can't reproduce and what we can do about it. There's actually a solution. But if we don't do something about it quickly, I mean, we really look like we're going towards instinction. And as each generation passes, we get a larger and larger pool of people who cannot reproduce. And there's a reason for that. And I think, I have a pretty good solution for it that we can talk about. It needs to be talked about. Okay, so, let's wrap this up. First of all, you need to educate. We all need to kind of jump on board, look at this, and start to educate more doctors. And I think there are doctors that really do wanna jump on board and learn to help people. Because, can you imagine how stressful their job is when they don't know how to help their patient? And I've actually seen them online express frustration. Yeah. The physicians are really frustrated with this. They're frustrated because nobody has taught them, and what they're left with is the package insert to the patches to try, to how do I dose my patient? There's no clinical goals. They don't know how to dose. They're just reading what the pharmaceutical company told them to do. There's some doctors that are pretty smart, and think outside of the box saying there's something to this estrogen thing. It doesn't make sense that estrogen would cause cancer because it's highest when women are pregnant. And if estrogen really caused cancer, then it would be women who are pregnant that would have the highest breast cancer incident rate. You know, there's some doctors actually logically think outside of the pharmaceutical conventional medicine box. And I see that there's a shortage of these physicians, but there's also, I think, now that the group of people that are contacting me the most are these physicians, especially after they start listening to the things I'm saying and that I'm not afraid to say them anymore. And I openly want to train more physicians how to properly prescribe hormones for women so that they can choose how they want their brains and bodies to decline. Such as, you know, can I prevent perimenopause? Probably so. I can teach you how to do it, and I could teach physicians how to get it done. And so I am launching, now it is open enrollment, but I'm looking to train healthcare practitioners, physicians, registered dieticians, health coaches, wellness coaches who want to learn how to be a hormone coach, and more a clinical hormone coach. How to actually work with hormone replacement therapies and physicians. Where do they go to sign up for this webinar? Oh, yeah, I do have an informational webinar coming up, but it also will be on demand, after I believe. They can go to HormoneCoachMasterclass.com. That's hormone coach masterclass.com. You can take a look at the page on that and register for the informational webinar. I'll have the live webinar, I believe on the seventh. The information will be on the website on HormoneCoachMasterclass.com, and for those physicians who are interested in learning how to prescribe advanced HRT protocols, the Clinical Hormone Coach masterclass is a very good foundational class to have them understand the concept of what we're trying to achieve. And then I will offer the the mentorship, the clinical application training here in the next few months. Okay. That sounds great. We'll wrap this up. I wanna say thank you to the listeners. Thank you Marie, for explaining all that. And you're gonna go deeper in your webinar, which is coming up here. So, go to HormoneCoachMasterclass.com. Well, thanks a bunch, Crystal. It's nice to see you again. Bye bye.